Doubting Bro

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Posts by Doubting Bro

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  49

  You just gotta read the story, Fade From the Truth, A Tale of Learning Then Unlearning the Beliefs of JWs

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  every once in a while there's a story so well told that it deserves lots and lots of kudos and plugs.

  here's that 124-book length story which is the first one linked from "exclusive autobiographies" on the home page of www.watchtowerdocuments.com.

  read it free!.

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  Doubting Bro

  marking for later
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  98

  Discussion involving my Dad & other long timers - Mood is definately different

  by Doubting Bro in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've seen several posts relating to the mood among longtime jws here recently.

  i thought i would add to that collection and recount a discussion i recently had with my dad and a small group of folks about his age.

  quick background on the group:.

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  Doubting Bro

  donuthole:

  The attrition has already started. The Watchtower is losing the hearts and minds of her followers. The Governing Body is responding by becoming more hardline, which I believe will cause spot-fires of rebellion. This has already started in the minds of the rank and file but will blossom as we move ahead.

  That's what I think as well. It was just flat out strange for me to be a part of this discussion. I wanted so badly just to lay everything out but I know I played it correctly. The only WT response to mumering is to go more hardline. Even though they have made concessions such as shortening the PT, dropping book study night, etc, they ramp up the control pieces like essentially banning college. It's only going to get worse for them.

  Gayle - I thought about that as well. Seems like these sorts of conversations are being held all over. Again, it's one thing to read about it, but another to see it take place.

  vidiot -

  Something just ocurred to me; if the worm is indeed turning, I wonder what the ratio of completely silent dissidents are to ones that feel brave enough to speak out, even if only in private.

  Good question. I guess we'll find out as the WTS keeps getting more hardline.

  SIAM - I agree that change is in the wind. I have no idea where it's going to end up but the WTS will continue to evolve in order to survive.
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  98

  Discussion involving my Dad & other long timers - Mood is definately different

  by Doubting Bro in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've seen several posts relating to the mood among longtime jws here recently.

  i thought i would add to that collection and recount a discussion i recently had with my dad and a small group of folks about his age.

  quick background on the group:.

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  Doubting Bro

  I've seen several posts relating to the mood among longtime JWs here recently. I thought I would add to that collection and recount a discussion I recently had with my Dad and a small group of folks about his age. Quick background on the group:

  My Dad - Been an elder around 20 years or so, a JW around 40 years. Was recently removed for some BS reasons surrounding family. I don't want to put much detail since I want to make sure there is plausible deniability but I will say that he followed the Borg's rule as they were written and got whacked anyway.

  Person #2 - long time pioneer and a person I would describe as a fanatical JW. Hard core, judgemental and will defend the WTS at all costs (or so I thought).

  Person #3 - was an elder, stepped down for several years and now a MS. Nice guy.

  My mom and several others were involved in the conversation but didn't do much talking. We'd all had a couple of drinks and somehow, I managed to stay pretty quite which I'm releaved about since they know I have apostate leanings and I know that person #2 would likely turn me in if I said too much.

  The discussion revolved around 3 main topics:

  1 - Treatment of disfellowshipped people, faders and non-JWs in general - One of my siblings is a "believing fader". He/She can't live the JW life but generally believes and has a bit of guilt over it. I've not had any real anti-JW discussions with this sibling because JW stuff just doesn't come up in our discussions. This sibling is married to a non-JW. Person #2 has a df'ed son who will never come back. My Dad proceeds to go OFF on how the WTS acts like the Pharisees in Jesus day treating people who don't believe the same why they do like dirt. He defends the df'ing policy to a degree but says that Paul didn't mean to totally shun people but to rather not exchange spiritual ideas with them! I was stunned. He is especially sensitive to the instructions to shun your family if not living in your house. My Dad, like all of us, has his faults but he is loyal to his family. I know that he would not engage in shunning any of his kids if they were df'ed. He has a relationship with my faded sibling and spouse and has no intention of giving that up. But, he's very upset that the counsel he's received is to limit his association with this sibling. He thinks the folks in Bethel making the rules have no idea what it's like to live in the real world and no idea what a family is! They sit up there, make their rules while the folks in the local congregations have to pick up the pieces of a broken family. Person #2 & #3 start to disagree a little (reflex defense of the WTS) but quickly joined forces. I also carefully agreed but let them do most of the talking. The best line from him - "We go knocking on total strangers doors speading a message that is supposed to highlight love and then have to treat the ones we should love the most like they don't exist. How is that love?" He also realizes that you can't force an adult to follow a religion if they don't want to. "Didn't Jehovah give us free will?" he asked.

  2- How elders/ms are scrutinized - He was also very upset at the way many COs treat the servant body. He used the analogy of how chickens are. If you've ever kept chickens, you know that if one hen gets a cut or something, the entire flock will continue picking at the wound and make it worse. You have to cover the wound or even keep the injured chicken separate until it heals or the flock will continue going after the injured chicken and can kill it. He said that's how the WTS is sometimes!! COs routinely blast the elder body over the stupidest things. I think anyone who has been an elder could agree with that. In his case, he felt that the other elders went after his perceived deficiency and other members of the local congregation did so as well. Nothing is ever good enough for them, he said. At this point, I interjected into the discussion and told him I felt the exact same way. I said that the COs expect perfection yet don't hold themselves to the same standard. He also said that the rest of the congregation expects the elders to be perfect and when they're not, quickly picks on the imperfection. Again, I agreed and said that's a reason why I would NEVER serve again. Just not worth it. Person #3 also agreed and said he was happy being just a MS and wouldn't want the stress that comes with being an elder.

  3 - Discouragement about not making converts - Person #2 started talking about how after 30+ years of pioneering, she was ready to hang it up! She said she drives around all day knocking on doors and no one responses. She said how she used to make converts but even those were mostly crazy (true - they were all crazy in the clinical sense). Now, even the crazy ones don't respond. She laments at the things she's missed, she wants to travel, to do things with her remaining time on earth. I've described her as a fanatical JW and I almost hit the floor when she was saying this. Everyone in the group agreed that for the most part, the door to door work was a complete waste of time!!!

  So, if this group is indicative of the mood among the ones in their 60s-70s out in JW land, the GB should be very concerned about the loss of control. Of course, this group also said several times that they "would never leave Jehovah or his organization" and that "Jehovah works with what he has" and other various statements of loyalty to the WTS. I recognized that they felt they had to say that to avoid the perception they are becoming apostate. However, my Dad also said that just because he thinks Jehovah is using the organization doesn't mean he agrees with everything they do or say.

  The WTS has lost my generation. Those that didn't leave are fairly apathic. Very few men in their 30s-40s wish to be elders and do as little as possible. The younger generation kids - 20s don't hold pioneering, Bethel or being a MS as a goal and live double lives. But, it really does seem as if they are now losing my parents generation. Remember, these are people that went through 1975 and stayed. They gave up careers, saving for retirement, dreams because Armageddon was "right around the corner". Now, they're coming face to face with the reality that isn't not coming, they are going to die in "this system" and the WTS doesn't value anything they've done in the past. I feel sad for them, I really do. But, at least I'm seeing that they realize something is seriously wrong. They actually talk of reform!! And, at least this group, decided that if they have to choose between family and the congregation, family will win. And to me, that's a huge victory.
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  64

  Call me paranoid, but its possible that this 30 hour initiative is a weeding out process....a cull if you will...

  by miseryloveselders in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we've discussed a few potential reasons why the wt is promoting april 2011 as a month of special activity.

  reasons include manipulating statistics, and trying to provide some kind of spark to increasingly apathetic and discouraged congregations.

  i'm sure there are others i'm missing too, feel free to include those.

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  Doubting Bro

  I really think its just a trial ballon. If they get more hours overall by lowering the requirement from 50 to 30, then it will go in place probably Sept 2011 (start of new service year).

  I do imagine that the lower requirement will put even more pressure on the elders/ms and their families to aux pioneer for April.

  As for her comment, I agree with the others that she probably likes you and figures having you out a little more will give her a chance to work with you.

  I've been places where those that didn't aux pio during April were always sort of looked down on. Nothing new there. And most certainly the CO will ask who took advantage of this "loving provision" on the servant body.
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  14

  Is the April 2011 Auxillary Pioneer 30 hours official ???

  by RubaDub in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we were not at the meeting last weekend and just wondering if the "30 hour" rule for april 2011 pioneer hours was actually read to the congregations ???.

  rub a dub.

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  Doubting Bro

  Yup. I only heard one person talking about it afterwards. I don't think it's going to pull in any new aux pio here.
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  78

  2011 NFL Playoffs - Divisional Round

  by Iron Head in

  1. social
  2. physical

  last week's results:.

  iron head 3 - 1. keyser soze 2 - 2. darth plaugeis 2 - 2. tec 2 - 2. doubting bro 3 - 1. miseryloveseleders 2 - 2. .

  nfl divisional playoff games.

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  Doubting Bro

  Ok got to chime in since I'm up by one!

  Steelers but not by much

  Bears

  Packers

  Pats

  Honestly, I don't see anyone beating the Pats this year and I really hate them. But, Hoody is a genius.
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  55

  Sad Family News.....

  by AK - Jeff in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  on friday morning, sometime before noon, my former son-in-law [for lack of better term, for he and my daughter were never married], father and custodial parent of my middle granddaughter, was found dead of an overdose of pain-medication.

  perhaps oxycontin, though i am unsure of the specific drug at the moment.. he was enduring pain from an accident with his moped [yes, he was lifetime license removed for drinking] that occurred a year or so back.

  his shoulder was injured and he had a surgery scheduled soon.

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  Doubting Bro

  Jeff, condolences to you and your family. What a terrible ordeal for someone so young to have to cope with. Strength to you and your wife as you help her cope.
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  35

  DO Rodrigues/ROD-ricks commenting on JWN discussions and apostate having some Troof.

  by cattails in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what a flurry of interesting topics on jwn lately!

  my oh my.. i haven't posted in the last few days... nor read the forum.. this last week i was back east visiting friends in the troof.. lucky for me it was assembly time, so packing and going to.

  natick assembly hall (boston, ma), and caught the sunday.

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  Doubting Bro

  Wonder if he's going to follow his own advice and not mummer about how his removal as a DO was unfair. I don't know the guy and usually don't make negative comments about individuals but really, I know his TYPE and I do feel a twinge of happiness as I read of his recent unemployment. Have fun in the real world Rodrigues.
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  139

  Some observations from the KM Elder School I wanted to share with you.

  by miseryloveselders in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my school was a couple weeks back, and it was interesting to a degree.

  to be honest with you, it reminded me of a police crime scene investigation with yellow tape.

  what i mean is, in one respect it was business as usual.

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  Doubting Bro

  WELCOME franklin massey!! Look forward to your contributions!!!
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  37

  BOE LTR Dec 9, 2010 (copy/paste) DC listings removed from March 1st WT!!!

  by yknot in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses'.

  same meeting.

  meeting.

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  Doubting Bro

  It's a little weird but I think its a trial ballon for having the local BOE print out the KMs from jw.org as opposed to printing and mailing them. They want to see if there are any problems and if the problems are minor (ask the COs to poll the local BOEs and report back) then they'll proceed with moving more things to this format.

  Pure speculation because it's not as if 1) people don't know when a convention takes place and 2) those sessions are open to the public.

  Also, it's not like they have so much stuff they want to put in that they don't have room!!